Archive for août 2007

stupid of the day

Granville Sewell of UD

Let me rephrase that one :

In any debate on Intelligent Design, there is a question I have long wished to see posed to ID opponents: “If we DID discover some biological feature that was irreducibly complex, to your satisfication and to the satisfaction of all reasonable observers, would that justify the design inference?” (Of course, I believe we have found thousands of such features, but never mind that.)

If the answer is yes, we just haven’t found any such thing yet, then all the constantly-repeated philosophical arguments that “ID is not science” immediately fall. If the answer is no, then at least the lay observer will be able to understand what is going on here, that Darwinism is not grounded on empirical evidence but a philosophy.

As you point out, you believe that irreducible complex biological features exist. And that you found thousands of them.

That’s a comforting a priori for you maybe, but it remains an hypothesis. You should start proving that IC bio features exist, then start the discussion. For the moment, your thousands of them is just a measure of your ignorance of biology.

If people believing in ghosts can find one, and propose it to tests, that doesn’t make their actual quest a scientific approach, a science. It remains as much spiritual as Intelligent Design, isn’t it ?

Why one would accept your quest as scientific and not theirs ? Or do you ? There is no the slightest part of scientific approach in ID.

And a last question for the day’s idiot. Do you believe (also) sophisms could replace scientific inquiry ? I don’t think so.


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Ah, j’ai dit déjà que quand Jean Staune s’accroche à une idée elle est probablement fausse. Je sens que c’est le cas de son nouveau chouchou, Vincent Fleury, mais là je viens de tomber sur des images qui m’ont pas mal amusé en pensant à Jean.

Qui s’est posé beaucoup de questions quant au développement du vol chez les oiseaux, descendants des théropodes.

Je en connaissais pas Sinornithosaurus. Nous venons de faire connaissance et j’avoue que je suis impressionné par la qualité des fossiles disponibles et la facilité avec laquelle on trouve des images sur le Net. Autrement dit, aurait dû voir ses images en préparant son bouquin. hé oui, 20 ans d’enquête scientifique 🙂 Je note ici pour l’instant les adresses où l’on trouve une belle image avec les griffes et les plumes des membres antérieurs (en détail), ou une belle photo d’un fossile entier. Ah, celle-là aussi il l’a ratée.

Sans laisser de côté les Microraptors quand même !

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natalie dee

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who’s that moron ?

Oh ! Scordova is the moron, nothing new in the ID universe 🙂

Look at the original :

Dear Sir John Herschel

You must permit me to have the pleasure to thank you for your kind present of your Physical Geography.f2 I feel honoured by your gift, & shall prize this Book with your autograph. I am pleased with your note on my book on species, though apparently you go but a little way with me.f3 The point which you raise on intelligent Design has perplexed me beyond measure; & has been ably discussed by Prof. Asa Gray, with whom I have had much correspondence on the subject.—f4 I am in a complete jumble on the point. One cannot look at this Universe with all living productions & man without believing that all has been intelligently designed; yet when I look to each individual organism, I can see no evidence of this. For, I am not prepared to admit that God designed the feathers in the tail of the rock-pigeon to vary in a highly peculiar manner in order that man might select such variations & make a Fan-tail; & if this be not admitted (I know it would be admitted by many persons), then I cannot see design in the variations of structure in animals in a state of nature,—those variations which were useful to the animal being preserved & those useless or injurious being destroyed. But I ought to apologise for thus troubling you.—

You will think me very conceited when I say I feel quite easy about the ultimate success of my views, (with much error, as yet unseen by me, to be no doubt eliminated); & I feel this confidence, because I find so many young & middle-aged truly good workers in different branches, either partially or wholly accepting my views, because they find that they can thus group & understand many scattered facts. This has occurred with those who have chiefly or almost exclusively studied morphology, geographical Distribution, systematic Botany, simple geology & palæontology. Forgive me boasting, if you can; I do so because I shd. value your partial acquiescence in my views, more than that of almost any other human being.—f5

Believe me with much respect | Yours, sincerely & obliged | Charles Darwin

Underlined Scorcova’s humorously digged candidate for a sticker. Now, that would make a perfect sticker for ID friendly books, not even able to finish reading the phrase 😀

Well, an effort Scordova, finish it : yet when I look to each individual organism, I can see no evidence of this.

Difficult stuff, isn’t it ? finishing phrases and tying understand them 😀

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This is a repost from PZ Myers ScienceBlog, with a few tags inserted (otherwise identical), the link via the title below.
What the fuck is going on on Europ? Would it be necessary tolive in USA to be able to criticize complete idiots? Such as Harun Yahya?

Turkish ass shuts down a slice of the internet

Category: Creationism
Posted on: August 20, 2007 8:13 AM, by PZ Myers

Unbelievable. , aka , the Turkish crackpot , didn’t like the fact that his critics wrote mean things about him … so he applied to a Turkish court to have all WordPress blogs blocked. And the court accepted his argument, and no one in Turkey has been able to access anything from WordPress.com for a day or two now.

Man, I was once mooned on the freeway by a guy in a Chevy. Does this mean I can get Chevrolet to recall all of their cars in the state of Minnesota now? That would sure teach him.

That fanatical nitwit wrote in to wordpress to brag about his accomplishment and demand that blogs that offend him be shut down, such as this one, and by the way, he’d also like all these blogs censored:


It sure would be a shame if someone echoed all those urls, and these anti-creationist blogs got more publicity and attention because of a stunt by Adnan Oktar, now wouldn’t it?

It is easy to treat this as a joke and an amazing act of pig-headed stupidity by a creationist, but we shouldn’t forget the scary part: a government with a pious judiciary was rather easily inclined to endorse mass, indiscriminate censorship on the whim of an evil clown.

P.S. Here’s a way to get around the block — you can still read and post to WordPress blogs in Turkey if you use OpenDNS. Spread the word.

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Vincent Fleury (voir dloale), se lance dans la définition du mot créationnisme, le limitant ainsi :

penser que Dieu (s’il existe) a directement crée les animaux il y a 5000 ans, ou bien qu’il (s’il existe) a fixé lui-même des propriétés chimiques des génômes au fil de l’évolution.

et ménageant les néocréationnistes, dont Jean Staune, son pote :

Si vous pensez que Dieu (s’il existe) a créé les lois de la physique, vous n’êtes pas créationniste. Vous êtes seulement croyant. Et ça, c’est parfaitement permis.

Jean doit respirer, c’est parfaitement permis !

Il a du chemin a faire VF pour la définition du mot créationniste et il ferait bien de ne pas rester à ce que lui raconte son pote Jean qui fait partie des Old Earth Creationists, mais Creationists anyway.

Pour aider Fleury, qui n’a pas l’air très au courant (de ces choses là non plus) voici le Credo des catholiques (en direct de Chretiente info):

Je crois en Dieu, le Père tout-puissant, Créateur du ciel et de la terre.

Et en Jésus Christ, son Fils unique, notre Seigneur ; qui a été conçu du Saint Esprit, est né de la Vierge Marie, a souffert sous Ponce Pilate, a été crucifié, est mort et a été enseveli, est descendu aux enfers ; le troisième jour est ressuscité des morts, est monté aux cieux, est assis à la droite de Dieu le Père tout-puissant, d’où il viendra juger les vivants et les morts.

Je crois en l’Esprit Saint, à la sainte Église catholique, à la communion des saints, à la rémission des péchés, à la résurrection de la chair, à la vie éternelle.


Vu Fleury ? « Je crois en Dieu, le Père tout-puissant, Créateur du ciel et de la terre. », ce « Créateur » ? Ce sont les gens qui croient en un créateur qu’on appelle créationnistes en général.

Le créationnisme est défini comme la doctrine religieuse suivant la quelle l’univers et tout ce qu’il contient, y compris les êtres vivants, ont été créés par Dieu.

Ce n’est pas une question de définitions personnelles parce que l’on a des vues marketing (promotion du non-matérialisme, par exemple, pour ne pas dire spiritualisme, par l’UIP) et que suivant l’opinion publique c’est sale d’être créationniste.

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The Village Atheist


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